Kreig, I have nothing against you, but if you notice, there's not just two pet-class players that are against your claim....it's a DM and three watchers. I'm sure we have SOME idea of what's going on.

Why circle?

Why not? Let's look at all the high level fighters....level 28, level 26, and a bunch of other level 20+s. Let's look at the first player to level 30...oh, an assassin!

Luminaire and I are exploiting this FREE EXPERIENCE bug? Have you seen the "total time played" on our characters? Mine is pretty damn high, and Luminaire's is just a bit ridiculous (haha, sorry lum).

And for all the people who complain that other classes are overpowered, exploiting something, etc....why don't you GO PLAY THAT CLASS? Maybe because they're hard to play? Maybe because they have other disadvantages? Druids don't heal all that well, and Gradius clerics spend most of their time realigning.

Want more examples? Sulik has a level 20-something Aramon cleric. He should be getting TONS OF FREE EXPERIENCE and exploiting this HUGE BUG that NO ONE has managed to notice besides you. Instead, his main character is a fighter. A pretty damn high level one at that.

I've leveled a fighter to 24 (maybe 25?). And I know there's pros and cons to every class. For example, a fighter can take on Captain Bloodbane pretty easily at a level as low as 19. On the other hand, Delta at level 30 has problems taking him on in one run. I don't know if I suck or something...maybe all the FREE EXPERIENCE has spoiled me!

Please give the DMs some credit. If this were a huge exploit, it would surely have been fixed already.

Still not satisfied? Let's run some calculations!

Let's take a cleric with a pet. Say...Gradius! Compare it to 1) fighter and 2) assassin.

They are all killing fortune tellers, which give around 1000 experience. A little less on average actually, but let's just make it 1000 for this example. (Of course, this never really happens.)

Over a course of 10 minutes, assuming there is a continuous supply of spawn, and each fortune teller has 200 HP.

Fighter takes 45 seconds to kill a fortune teller.

Gradius cleric takes 40 seconds to kill a fortune teller (with help of pet, but worse thac0 than fighter).

Assassin takes 30 seconds to kill a fortune teller.

For 6 of those 10 minutes, a Gradius cleric with a pet will get 1400 experience every 40 seconds. For the other 4 minutes, the Gradius cleric will have no pet, probably be out of MP, and ticking. That means 1400 x 9 = 12600 XP.

For a fighter, he will rarely get hit, if at a decent level, and so can kill for all 9 of those 10 minutes. That means 1000 x 12 = 12000 XP.

For an assassin, he will kill much faster, but probably still have to tick. Let's say he can last 6 minutes. That means 1000 x 12 = 12000 XP.

Those estimates may be far from perfect, but you get the idea. The Gradius cleric will probably spend another chunk of time having to realign, while the fighter can probably pick up some more experience from crits. You know what? It all balances out pretty well!

Please support your future arguments with more than just a text cap from your fire asp killing at crabs. You can't extend that argument to every single pet player based on a low level pet character.

Ah forget it.

It doesn't really matter anyway. It just bugs me that so many thousands of experience are getting handed out like candy where as another class has to work to gain that.

FYI... your fortune teller idea is weird... It may take an assassin or a fighter less time to kill a teller.
But you have to remember that your not going to walk in to a room FILLED with good exp mobs.

Gotta sit and wait for em. Sometimes for awhile... If during decent spawn... within an hour 10 spawn.. Sure they knock em dead faster then you... But you still get an extra 400 for your 10 second longer battle. In essence... 4k for 100 seconds of work? 3min and 20 seconds? Seriously?

If you add that up... 1000 seconds extra battle time... 40k... 16 mins and a few seconds? Hell i'de sit around for that much...

Oh well... My argument is about as good as pissen in the wind. I still think it's too much, but I can't change set minds.

This could easily be fixed, but let me tell you your two options.

Option 1) Keep it as is. Exp in a group is divided up based on how much damage you did out of the max hp of the mob. Ie: you do 100/200 you get 50% of his exp. This is how it is right now. If you have a group of 4, and everyone does 100 dmg to him (lets say he ticks 200hp), everyone gets 50% exp of his exp for a total of 200% of his normal exp. Yes, more exp than he's set at, but hey...if you want to sit around and vig a mob, and waste your time, hp, mp....go for it.

Option 2) The exp you get is based on the total damage done to the monster. Lets say he has 200 hp, but again as in the previous example, he ticks 200 hp. Now we'll do dmg/max dmg * exp or, 100/400 * (exp). Then like Krieg's been saying he wants, the max exp you'll ever get for the mob is exactly 100% of his exp. This would fix pet casters, but severally screw over groups and make grouping entirely undesirable.


You pick...which do you want? Modifying pets only would be far too much of a pain to justify so that option is out unless someone wants to code an acceptable solution for me.

I have toyed with the option of changing exp in the future to give clerics more incentive to heal the group and buff them up rather than do damage...might be an interesting idea to make a group flag called split exp.

But for now, I really think it's working as intended, a slight bonus for pet classes and nothing too overpowering. Please...let's not start the nerf train again.

Maybe set it up so taking damage and doing damage both increase experience gain. That would provide grouping with option two much nicer sounding. It would also (as you noted) bring the healer clerics out and make them very strong group members. More so then they are now.

I dunno, it is your MUD =P I was just complaining about something that I strongly disagree with.

1) If there's a class people think is overbalanced, then they all flock to play it. Then:

A) DMs realize that too many people are playing class X, and no one is playing class Y. DMs balance classes.

or

B) Players realize that class X also has many disadvantages, and only some continue playing class X.


Which is true for pet classes. It appears to be B! There's plenty of fighters, assassins, rogues, non-pet-clerics, etc. On the other hand, try leveling a pet class to a decent level, and then we can have a more reasonable conversation. If I remember, you leveled your werewolf pretty quickly, and didn't complain.

But you know what will most likely happen? You'll realize that you'll have to collect weapons, and then lots of armor, because pet classes tend to get hit a lot (unlike assassins and fighters). Then you'll realize that druid pets are kind of stupid at higher levels, casting level 1 spells repeatedly. If you play a cleric of Aramon, you'll realize that their pets are okay, but that they take a while to kill things. If you play a cleric of Gradius, you'll probably spend all of your time realigning.

Anything else I miss?

kreig wrote:

NOTICE: how the two big pet owners are making complaints against my argument.

Please tell me where in my post I made a complaint against your argument? It looks to me like I just tried to explain how exp is determined and then I mentioned that I informed the staff about the extra exp years ago. Please don't include me as part of your argument.

luminaire wrote:

Since experience is awarded for the amount of damage done to the mob in proportion to its hit points, it is possible that players with pets get more more exp from mobs. This is due to the mob ticking in battle. To illustrate my point let me use the following example: Let's assume you're fighting a green crab that has 30 HP. Your pet hits for 15. You hit for 12. The green crab ticks 10 hit points back. Your pet hits for 15 and kills it. Your pet will have earned 28 hit points worth of exp and you will have earned 12 which would give you approximately 30% more exp than the mob is worth in this situation. I mentioned it long ago but it was never fixed completely. The only real problem comes when people used to heal mobs as they fought them with a pet so that they could get 200% exp from every mob. Then again, that method would cause you to fight less mobs overall and tick more from using up mp faster, so its not even really any more efficient. But you're right, it adds up.

Bane wrote:

As far as I'm concerned this is one of the benefits of having pets, and is working as intended.

As far as I'm concerned, the conversation should have come to a stop here.

luminaire wrote:

Please don't include me as part of your argument.

Then don't reply. To me this is a basic argument. You replying says you want in on the argument.

Look I don't mean to sit here and bash on players. I just wanted to point something out and tell everyone that I believe that this is wrong. I wasn't here x amount of years ago, nor does the forum go back that far. So i've no idea who, what, when, or where you have talked about this. When looked at from my perspective it seems REALLY REALLY wrong.

I still think it is, but despite my ravings I don't think any of it will change.

So there ya go =P

kreig wrote:

Then don't reply. To me this is a basic argument. You replying says you want in on the argument.

kreig wrote:

I was just wondering if anyone noticed that pets give you a totally differant experience gain...

To me, this is a question asking if anyone else has noticed something. Given that I did not disagree or argue with you then I'm afraid you are mistaken.

My initial reply was nothing more than an explanation of how experience is figured and why pet-classes will earn more. Furthermore, in almost all circumstances I will do try my best to help other players understand the mechanics of the game to the best of my knowledge.

I appreciate the fact that you noticed something you felt was unfair and called attention to it, however the method with which you did so was, in my opinion, disrespectful to not only me but to Bane as well.

Rather than ranting how REALLY REALLY wrong it is, how about coming up with alternate solutions to the ones that have been presented. One idea that just came to mind would be eliminating across-the-board EXP tables for classes altogether. This way fighters, thieves...etc would need less exp to level than druids, clerics, mages...etc. Not only would this would help alleviate the problem but also move toward a classic D&D formula.

Hahaha, I just read over a lot of this and it sounds like one of those drunken arguments that no one can win =P

Finally after several hours and yelling and being rude to each other you just agree to disagree.

Didn't mean disrespect to Bane/Dom/Lum/Delta. It's just how I try to phrase things. I'm not very good at it =P

Either way no hard feelings.

delta wrote:

If I remember, you leveled your werewolf pretty quickly, and didn't complain.

All I do with my wolf is complain about how long it is taking me to level =P

No groupies (cept for bruce who got me to 7) and some after with you delta. But 10-13 was almost solo. And believe me it was GRUELING. I don't know places to kill. People keep telling me BW but there are nasty aggros and a lot of things resist hands to an extent.

Hehe, so imma still complain about lvling my wolf up *gnaw*