I mentioned this a while ago, but I clumped it in with another post, so I don't know if it got missed since I didn't get any feedback about it.

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A few things about backstab ... ** Are there plans for extending the backstab multiplier till level 40, which also includes raising the cap for multiclasses? I was looking at the code, and it seems that it only goes up to level 30. ** I backstab things my around my level for about 80-90ish. I understand that it's capped at 3x for me, but it feels relatively low at level 40, especially when I used to backstab for low 100s at level 30. Is this because of the multiplier thing, higher mobs, or because my skill is only 33x (the skill is ridiculously hard to raise after 30, despite me backstabbing everything)?

Also, not so urgent ... but I just want to make some comments about liches and drain, before I forget.

*** Drain is an attack that can only be used at the start of battle (like backstab). There is no stun effect, and it takes up your attack + casting timer.
--> Since liches get punched hard, I think it'd be awesome to have drain add onto your maximum total HP. Liches survive off their stunning ability as of now, so using drain guarantees one round of an enemy attack. Let's say drain hit for 40 as it is now ... I'd still rather do a stun (10 HP) and two level 2 casts (14 HP), which would do the same amount of damage and only use up 34 HP, instead of risking getting hit for even more than I used to cast.
--> This added HP could have a cap on it, ie. the maximum you can gain is an extra 70HP past your normal total. Furthermore, this amount continuously ticks down until you've reached your normal total HP.

*** The success rate and maximum damage are also questionable. I haven't been able to talk to anyone who has played a lich to an adequate level, but Delta failz0red on Plu quite a few times. I tried looking at the code for it and it seems reasonable, but I can't make much sense of it when I cannot see it in the works.

I love the idea of liches, but with the new combat system, I believe these things might make them a little more viable than they are now. I'm up for play-testing if changes for these two skills will be considered!

Maybe even make the stun spell cost on liches at 5 MP or less since their life depends on it so much to suceed. But yeah I agree Liches are WEAK!!

lenovo wrote:

Maybe even make the stun spell cost on liches at 5 MP or less since their life depends on it so much to suceed. But yeah I agree Liches are WEAK!!

I don't think liches should get a break for spell casting, since they max out at 270 HP, which is FAR more than what a mage has to work with.

I don't think any class is supposed to be "weak", it's just a question of whether they are in check with the current system; There are always going to be trade-offs for playing classes. The trade-off for playing a lich is being vulnerable to physical attacks. But the reward is having more casting power to work with, being able to max out with more attack power.

A few things I forgot to add onto liches ...
*** Is there a reason why regenerate cannot be used during battle?
*** If you fail a drain, the timer resets back to two minutes (which is the normal timer of a success). I think that's a little rough. Shouldn't the delay be similar to a failed pray or something? Especially if the success rate isn't so great ...

It seems like the new combat system made physical damage better and spell damage a little weaker, only really hurting liches since they just can't handle the damage.

The solution should be in defensive spellcasting for liches in things like stone skin. Just make sure that it's balanced and working and you're good to go.

Backstab
It looks like your skill in backstab only determines your multiplier for damage. It looks like at a skill level of 33, you're doing just fine. Damage reduction and the like uses your actual level. So sure - raising the cap sounds fine to me. I'll have to graph out the multiplier for the current levels to see where it goes.

Liches

Jacko wrote:

It seems like the new combat system made physical damage better and spell damage a little weaker, only really hurting liches since they just can't handle the damage.

This is precisely correct. Bane put in the new combat system and had intended to put in the new magic system afterwards. We understood that spellcasters would be less powerful during this phase, but with Bane getting busy this phase has gotten longer than we had originally intended.

Drain should be compared to another combat ability, like smother, rather than a non-combat ability like pray. Smother has a 2 minute delay whether your fail or not. Other things to look at: damage done and chance of success. I'll do that when I'm back home again.

Regenerate: it doesn't look like meditate is restricted to non-combat.


I understand that liches and mages are tougher to play right now. I'm hesitant to upgrade their abilities - if the new magic system is actually going to happen, then we may have to downgrade their abilities in the future. But if the magic system is going to take a while, I don't want to leave them the way they are. It's tough to balance

Thank you for the feedback, Dom! And Jacko is quite insightful as always. What has been stated completely makes sense -- if the upcoming changes will "buff" casters in general, then there's no point in trying to balance out things right now when they will just have to be tinkered with again in the future.

As far as the regenerate thing goes, it says

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You are too busy to draw from the life energy around you.

if you try it during battle.

Of course, I'm not so familiar with how much regenerate restores ... but now that I think about it, the easy way to work around this is to: flee, regenerate, then hop back into combat. It'd just be like a mage having to flee because he/she has run out of MP.

Oce thought monks and liches were too buff and removed meditate/regenerate from combat.


I was thinking about skills the other night, I think I'll make it so if your skill is less than half, or 3/4 your level*10, and you have a bunch of other skills at or close to your level, that you're an experienced learner and it'd go faster up to 1/2 or 3/4th.

-Bane

I think a reasonable solution, albeit one that will require some work from the busy DMs is to add in mirror image.

I would say something like level/10 so, at 11 you would be able to cast your second image and 40 your fourth. Making a total of five of you at 40.

It would basically be a way for a caster to completely negate damage in combat. Assuming in the 30's when they have two images they take 1/3rd of the first round of damage, then after the first hit, if it hits a mirror image, 1/2 of the damage, assuming it hits the image.

This means that you're never really safe, as there's always an equal chance they can hit one of your images or you, but once an image is hit, for any amount of damage, it disappears.

I would assume code wise you could create a pet with 1 hit point, who does whatever the player does, but who's damage is always dropped to zero.

It would also be fun for emotes.

This would help mages/liches and multiclasses deal with combat a bit better. And then no matter how you affect spells you would only have to deal with this spell, and not an entire retooling of the classes to balance them out.

That, if done, would be done with the new magic system.

If anyone knows a good coder that has free time and wants to help...by all means, send them our way.

Usagi wrote:

*** The success rate and maximum damage are also questionable. I haven't been able to talk to anyone who has played a lich to an adequate level, but Delta failz0red on Plu quite a few times. I tried looking at the code for it and it seems reasonable, but I can't make much sense of it when I cannot see it in the works.

I was thinking about this one, and if it makes sense to have drain as a skill, or a level based ability as it was before...It does seem rather innate in the nature of a Lich...Either that or making it skill up faster.

Thoughts?